Author Topic: Preview of Upcoming Changes to Combat Escape AA Abilities  (Read 734 times)

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Offline Tarvas

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Preview of Upcoming Changes to Combat Escape AA Abilities
« on: October 01, 2019, 10:01:49 am »
Preview of Upcoming Changes to Combat Escape AA Abilities

This may impact the way you play.

Quote from: 'Dzarn'
The team wanted to take a moment to highlight a particular set of changes coming in next month's update and offer some insight on why these changes are being made.

The last major changes made to AA abilities that allow characters to quickly escape combat took place during the September 23, 2015 game update. Those changes involved fixing bugs with how escape functioned and increasing restrictions on how these abilities work by limiting their chance to succeed and enforcing a maximum level of NPC that characters can escape from.

Over the last four years we've watched how these changes have impacted gameplay and decided a different adjustment was in order. There were several lessons learned, some aspects of the changes we've been happy with, while other aspects have caused friction in ways that wasn't our goal.

We've reevaluated how we want to limit the power of these abilities and will be making a number of changes that we consider an overall improvement for most classes. See the following excerpt from next month's update notes.

We felt it appropriate to offer context for these changes while taking a brief review of the history of escape AA abilities.

The first of these abilities was implemented in Shadows of Luclin with the intent of letting Rogues escape a bad situation and was balanced by having a relatively long reuse time. The team considers the ability to escape death a very powerful asset.

The second escape AA ability was given to Bards in Planes of Power with instantaneous reuse and was balanced by charging a significant amount of mana, historically a very limited resource for the Bard class. This resulted in improving a Bard's ability to pull important NPCs out of a group in ways that was traditionally handled by classes with feign death. Just like escaping death for many classes, the team considers the ability to split mobs more quickly as a very powerful tool for pulling classes.

Several expansions later Monks were given Imitate Death, many expansions later Enchanters obtained Self Stasis, and during the two subsequent expansions every class gained access to an escape ability with the sole exception of Beastlords.

The proliferation of a once highly limited ability without its initial heavy restrictions was partially what prompted the changes during the 2015 update to help ensure that player power remains in a reasonable place versus the difficulty of the content.

Fundamentally, a button that you press in a dire situation that is intended to save your character's life 'should work'. The fact that many classes have a button that has a 10% chance to do nothing when activated isn't consistent and obviously causes a great deal of frustration. Additionally, having different maximum levels of opponents that you can escape from on a per class basis leads to inconsistencies we haven't been happy with.

It is for these reasons that all classes' escape abilities will now have a 100% chance to succeed on targets up to 5 levels higher than the caster. We believe that allowing these abilities to function in a consistent and reliable manner is going to make for a better experience.

That said, because we consider these abilities incredibly powerful for both their pulling and survival properties, we believe they should have a commensurate resource cost. It is for this reason that we are retuning the reuse time and adding a mana or endurance cost to all of these abilities.

We've grouped the classes together as follows to determine what the reuse time and resource cost should be.

Escape abilities for all classes will now have their final rank available by level 85 during the Underfoot expansion. In cases where there are now fewer ranks than there were previously we will be automatically reassigning the proper rank of your abilities so that a refund/repurchase is not necessary after logging in.
Escape abilities for Bards, Beastlords, Monks, Necromancers, Rogues, and Shadowknights will have a shorter reuse time (1s to 2.5 minutes) and a resource cost of 2% mana or endurance based on class.
Escape abilities for Berserkers, Enchanters, Rangers, and Shaman will now have a reuse time of 10 minutes and a resource cost of 20% mana or endurance based on class.
Escape abilities for Clerics, Druids, Magicians, Paladins, Warriors, and Wizards will now have a reuse time of 15 minutes and a resource cost of 20% mana or endurance based on class.
Our aim in messaging these changes early is to give time to consider community feedback and so that you can plan ahead to /testcopy for next month's test server update to test out how these changes impact your gameplay.

Quote
*All - AA abilities that allow characters to escape combat have been retuned to provide a more consistent experience. Now, rather than some classes' escape abilities relying on level limits and variable success chances, all AA escape abilities will have a 100% chance to succeed on opponents up to 5 levels above the caster. These abilities will now have higher reuse times and resource costs for most classes, as this better reflects our vision for these abilities.

*Bard - Fading Memories - Removed ranks 4-40. Ranks 1-3 now consume 12, 6, and 2% of your mana to activate.

*Berserker - Self Preservation - Increased the success chance to 100% (up from 90%), increased the level difference to +5 (up from +3), and removed the self-stun component of this ability. Removed ranks 4-11 and adjusted the hastening so that this ability has a 10 minute reuse by rank 3 at level 85 (up from 6 minutes at level 100). This ability now consumes 20% of your endurance to activate.

*Beastlord - Falsified Death - This ability is now available at level 80 in Underfoot. This ability consumes 2% of your mana to feign death and allows you to escape combat from NPCs up to a level difference of +5 and your warder to escape combat from all NPCs, with a 2.5 minute reuse time.

*Cleric - Divine Peace - Increased the success chance to 100% (up from 90%), increased the level difference to +5 (up from +3), set the reuse time of this ability to be 15 minutes (up from 3 minutes), and made the ability available in Underfoot at level 85 (previously it was unlocked in Veil of Alaris at level 91).

*Druid - Veil of the Underbrush - Increased the success chance to 100% (up from 90%), increased the level difference to +5 (up from +3), set the reuse time of this ability to be 15 minutes (up from 3 minutes), and made the ability available in Underfoot at level 85 (previously it was unlocked in Veil of Alaris at level 95).

*Enchanter - Friendly Stasis - Increased the level difference to +5 (up from +3). This ability now consumes 20% of your mana to activate.


*Enchanter - Self Stasis - Increased the level difference to +5 (up from +3). Removed ranks 5-11 and adjusted the hastening so that this ability has a 10 minute reuse by rank 4 at level 85 (up from 6 minutes at level 105). This ability now consumes 20% of your mana to activate.

*Magician - Drape of Shadows - Increased the success chance to 100% (up from 90%), increased the level difference to +5 (up from +3). Removed ranks 2-14 and set the reuse time of this ability to be 15 minutes (up from 3 minutes at 105). This ability now consumes 20% of your mana to activate.

*Monk - Imitate Death - Reduced the reuse of ranks 1-8 by 30 seconds. This ability now consumes 2% of your endurance to activate. Rank 9 is now available in Underfoot (it was previously unlocked in House of Thule).

*Necromancer - Death's Effigy - Increased the success chance to 100% (up from 90%), increased the level difference to +5 (up from +3). This ability now consumes 2% of your mana to activate. Ranks 1-4 are now available in Underfoot (rank 1 was previously unlocked in House of Thule and ranks 2-4 in Call of the Forsaken).

*Paladin - Balefire Burst - Increased the success chance to 100% (up from 90%), increased the level difference to +5 (up from +3), increased the reuse time to 15 minutes (up from 3 minutes) and made the ability available at level 85 in Underfoot (it was previously unlocked in House of Thule). The ability now consumes 20% of your mana to activate.

*Ranger - Cover Tracks - Increased the success chance to 100% (up from 90%). Removed ranks 4-15 and adjusted the hastening so that this ability has a 10 minute reuse by rank 3 at level 85 (up from 3 minutes at level 100). This ability now consumes 20% of your mana to activate.

*Rogue - Escape - Reduced the reuse of ranks 3-11 and added rank 12 resulting in a 1.5 minute reuse timer at level 85. This ability now consumes 2% of your endurance to activate.

*Shadowknight - Death's Effigy - This ability now consumes 2% of your mana to activate.

*Shaman - Inconspicuous Totem - Increased the level difference to +5 (up from +3). Removed ranks 4-13 and adjusted the hastening so that this ability has a 10 minute reuse by rank 3 at level 85 (up from 4 minutes at level 105). This ability now consumes 20% of your mana to activate.

*Warrior - Howl of the Warlord - Increased the success chance to 100% (up from 90%), increased the level difference to +5 (up from +3), and removed the cast time. Removed ranks 2-5 and adjusted rank 1 so that this ability has a 15 minute reuse time (up from 3 minutes) at level 85 and is available in Underfoot (it was previously unlocked in House of Thule). The ability now consumes 20% of your endurance to activate.

*Wizard - A Hole in Space - Increased the success chance to 100% (up from 90%), increased the level difference to +5 (up from +3), set the reuse time of this ability to be 15 minutes (up from 2.5 minutes), and made the ability available in Underfoot at level 85 (previously it was unlocked in Veil of Alaris at level 95)

Offline Elfguard

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Re: Preview of Upcoming Changes to Combat Escape AA Abilities
« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2019, 12:28:36 pm »
Escape abilities for Clerics, Druids, Magicians, Paladins, Warriors, and Wizards will now have a reuse time of 15 minutes
thats the end of my GMM Trips =(
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Offline Nuukee

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Re: Preview of Upcoming Changes to Combat Escape AA Abilities
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2019, 05:13:14 pm »
Escape abilities for Clerics, Druids, Magicians, Paladins, Warriors, and Wizards will now have a reuse time of 15 minutes
thats the end of my GMM Trips =(
Yup, once again Wizards ( and others ) get fucked more than others. This makes solo'n harder as a wizzy, having to wait 15min resuse time sucks ... it was fun being able to split mobs for once with odd groups. O well . FUCK U EQ.

Offline Sonal

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Re: Preview of Upcoming Changes to Combat Escape AA Abilities
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2019, 06:27:20 pm »
Well it not suppose to be pulling ability but escape.... 15 min is a bit harsh but would 8min make a big difference to the things you can do ?
p.s. i am not for this shit - every nerf suck - but there are nerfs and there are nerfs ...
only a few years back wizards and wars and others had no way to escape death at all ( other then evac for wizards i guess :P ) so
« Last Edit: October 01, 2019, 06:31:32 pm by Sonal »
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Offline Tarvas

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Re: Preview of Upcoming Changes to Combat Escape AA Abilities
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2019, 07:03:16 pm »
Personally, I don't mind the change because CT has been useless on raids for a while. If I am doing something that constantly requires me to mash my escape button should I should probably reevaluate what I am doing. As for non-pulling classes pulling with it fairly frequently, I think that should have been dealt with years ago.

Offline Jokskilove

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Re: Preview of Upcoming Changes to Combat Escape AA Abilities
« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2019, 11:40:28 pm »
Having a bard in my box team makes it less of an issue for me. However, I wish they would get rid of the cast time on the pally escape aa - making a high-speed escape, and then having to make a full stop and then casting the spell makes it really unreliable, with the way channeling works unreliably after stopping your movement.

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Offline Nuukee

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Re: Preview of Upcoming Changes to Combat Escape AA Abilities
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2019, 12:25:25 am »
Personally, I don't mind the change because CT has been useless on raids for a while. If I am doing something that constantly requires me to mash my escape button should I should probably reevaluate what I am doing. As for non-pulling classes pulling with it fairly frequently, I think that should have been dealt with years ago.
You forget how useful this can be on raids. Wizard gets agro.. OH SHIT " press Hole in space" he forgets you and goes back to tank or next dps on hate list hehe.. but being able to use it every 2min compared to 15 is the SUCK!

Offline Uegan

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Re: Preview of Upcoming Changes to Combat Escape AA Abilities
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2019, 05:09:30 pm »
Geebus. No one tell them about evac pulling or they might take that next. Druids have always been a pulling class... or at least used to be.

Offline Tarvas

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Re: Preview of Upcoming Changes to Combat Escape AA Abilities
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2019, 07:46:19 pm »
Personally, I don't mind the change because CT has been useless on raids for a while. If I am doing something that constantly requires me to mash my escape button should I should probably reevaluate what I am doing. As for non-pulling classes pulling with it fairly frequently, I think that should have been dealt with years ago.
You forget how useful this can be on raids. Wizard gets agro.. OH SHIT " press Hole in space" he forgets you and goes back to tank or next dps on hate list hehe.. but being able to use it every 2min compared to 15 is the SUCK!

My opinion on it is that hate management is everyone's responsibility and if a DPS class is overriding a tank with any frequency that's an issue that needs to be resolved between them and the tank. Sometimes things happen like a tank going down and a get out of jail free card is nice to have until things stabilize, but if that is happening frequently than there are bigger issue at play that need to be addressed. I don't particularly mind that escape has been farmed out, I just think they went to far by allowing folks to use it a lot and become dependent on it.

Offline Nuukee

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Re: Preview of Upcoming Changes to Combat Escape AA Abilities
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2019, 12:51:53 pm »
Personally, I don't mind the change because CT has been useless on raids for a while. If I am doing something that constantly requires me to mash my escape button should I should probably reevaluate what I am doing. As for non-pulling classes pulling with it fairly frequently, I think that should have been dealt with years ago.
You forget how useful this can be on raids. Wizard gets agro.. OH SHIT " press Hole in space" he forgets you and goes back to tank or next dps on hate list hehe.. but being able to use it every 2min compared to 15 is the SUCK!

My opinion on it is that hate management is everyone's responsibility and if a DPS class is overriding a tank with any frequency that's an issue that needs to be resolved between them and the tank. Sometimes things happen like a tank going down and a get out of jail free card is nice to have until things stabilize, but if that is happening frequently than there are bigger issue at play that need to be addressed. I don't particularly mind that escape has been farmed out, I just think they went to far by allowing folks to use it a lot and become dependent on it.

While I agree 100%, just because a tank is dying frequently, doesn't mean anything is wrong, when we do new content and things are much harder than the average raid fight and learning the raid,. having this Hole in Space gives more time for the next tank to pick it up the mob, rather than it killing dps or clerics etc.... yes it is my duty to not over agro. which I'm pretty sure i've done very well for the most part. Once a wizzy dies... they are fucking useless for at least 5 min after a battle rez, especially if all your mana back abilities were used right before death.
   I'd rather see them spend time on NEW and exciting content rather than just taking zone A from 4 expansions ago and "revamping" it.. " Oh look it looks just like the past zone, except harder mobs"   That is what I think they should focus all or at least most of their energy and time on, not taking something away that's been in use for years. Fuck them...

Offline Sonal

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Re: Preview of Upcoming Changes to Combat Escape AA Abilities
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2019, 03:31:28 pm »
After seeing what they did in the last expansion ... maybe they should just take old (good) zones and reuse them instead of this terrible rubbish we just got a year ago.
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Offline Uegan

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Re: Preview of Upcoming Changes to Combat Escape AA Abilities
« Reply #11 on: October 04, 2019, 05:38:31 am »
They should still leave evac pull alone because I said so:P

Offline Tarvas

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Re: Preview of Upcoming Changes to Combat Escape AA Abilities
« Reply #12 on: October 04, 2019, 08:17:27 am »
https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/index.php?threads/preview-of-upcoming-changes-to-combat-escape-aa-abilities.259703/page-8#post-3824234

Quote from: Dzarn, post: 3824234, member: 170
First off, a genuine thanks to the posters who have offered constructive feedback.

I wanted to take a moment to include one additional excerpt from the upcoming update notes as it relates specifically to useful feedback brought up in this thread:

Quote
“Pet Users - Summon Companion - Rank 2 now provides a 100% chance for your pet to escape combat from all NPCs (up from a level difference of +3 and a maximum success chance of 95% at rank 4). Removed ranks 2 and 3 of this ability and made rank 2 available during Underfoot (it previously unlocked at House of Thule). Ranks 1 and 2 now consume 1% of your mana to activate.”

We're continuing to monitor feedback and will provide an update when we've finalized tuning on these changes before they go to the test server.

https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq/index.php?threads/preview-of-upcoming-changes-to-combat-escape-aa-abilities.259703/page-15#post-3824939

Quote from: Dzarn, post: 3824939, member: 170
Once again, a heartfelt thanks to everyone who provided constructive input, please know that you are beacons of hope in a sea of psychopathy.

As noted on Tuesday we have been monitoring feedback and after further review have made a few adjustments so that the changes are in a better state before they go to the Test server.

Classes that were changed to have a 15 minute reuse timer in the initial proposal will now have a 10 minute timer.
Enchanter Self Stasis have been changed to have a 5 minute reuse timer (now an improvement rather than a nerf).
Abilities that were changed to have a 20% resource cost will now have an 8% resource cost. To clarify, this cost is a percentage of your total mana or endurance (not your remaining mana or endurance).
All escape abilities that previously had a cast time are now instant cast.
All escape abilities will now apply their secondary effects (invisibility or sanctuary) regardless of the caster's proximity to attackers.
All escape abilities will now reduce your aggro with any NPCs you fail to escape from by 1 million points.
In addition to these changes, we've made the following adjustment to spells for the October update:

All melee classes - Hiatus can now be activated in combat. It still has the melee speed penalty and endurance cap.

Offline Nuukee

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Re: Preview of Upcoming Changes to Combat Escape AA Abilities
« Reply #13 on: October 04, 2019, 12:54:37 pm »
I guess 10 min is better than 15!

Offline Biktin

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Re: Preview of Upcoming Changes to Combat Escape AA Abilities
« Reply #14 on: October 04, 2019, 05:26:37 pm »
Quote
Once again, a heartfelt thanks to everyone who provided constructive input, please know that you are beacons of hope in a sea of psychopathy.

lol!

Also I noticed this forum software still has stuff that I thought was relegated to 1999.

Like really do we have an actual marquee?
But where is the BLINK?

And I am also looking forward to adding an FTP link.

I digress.